Jay EG Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Hi I’m looking at purchasing a M3 long range AWD and was wondering if anyone has some data on range expectations. More specifically I have a 100 mile one way commute that is 90% freeway. As such I was wondering at what temperature in the winter would I expect it to be necessary to charge. I know there are lot of variables let’s say my scenario is as “normal” as possible driving the speed limits, cabin at 68 degrees and dry roads. What outside temperature can I still get 220 miles out of one charge? I appreciate and help on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Hanke Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 This is a pretty tough question. Your normally going to want to charge to 90% or so. In the spring, summer and fall it shouldn't be a problem. In winter with wind you might be a little tight 5 to 10 days a year. At the work end of thr commute do you have an emergency or level 2 charging option? jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Christian Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Jay, Wow, 100 miles one-way commute is over four times the state average! Based on data I've seen/read, most MN drivers' commutes are < 25 miles one way. I have more questions than answers... Will you have access to any EV chargers or outlets/receptacles where you park at work? Even slow Level 1 (120 VAC) would help over 8+ hours during the work day. The BMS will consume some rated range to keep the batteries warm during brutal cold days. What is the speed limit on the roads you'll drive? Wind resistance becomes a bigger factor at higher speeds so 60 vs. 70 vs 80 MPH can make a big difference on range. The "hyper mile" range EV records have been done at < 30 MPH. Do you plan to install and use winter/snow tires? Snow tires usually have higher rolling resistance which equates to worse range. A traction vs. range trade-off. All EV batteries will degrade over time so expect your ideal rated range will be reduced 3% to 8%, after X years of ownership. That will make your "220 miles in worst-case winter conditions" have a different answer after X years from brand new. Where X is a variable and depends on many factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay EG Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 Thanks for the quick replies. I agree my situation is a bit odd, I commute to the metro from southern mn 2-4 times per week. The vast majority is on I-35 where I plan to go at the posted limit of 70. Regarding charging options there aren’t any directly at the office but there are charging options not too far away. I was not planning on snow tires as I have another option for inclement weather. I know I’ll have to charge during some of the colder days upon reaching the metro. I just wasn’t sure if my 220 range needed would still be possible at 40 degrees or something colder like 20. From that basis I can start to then consider things like wind. I tried A better route planner and it seemed like their estimate was very optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Christian Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Jay, You're welcome. Hopefully someone with real-world long-distance commuting in an EV will be able to respond and better answer your ultimate "220 miles range" question. As we all know, some winter days in Minnesota can be brutally cold, dip to below zero for extended periods. Another consideration could be a Model S with a bigger 100 kWh battery pack. Yes, I know that'd be more expensive than a Model 3, but you could also look at the used market. This might be heresy on a Tesla forum, but a very fuel efficient hybrid electric, such as the Toyota Prius Prime, would also make a good commuting vehicle. Of course the hybrid's "all electric" range is much lower, but gas efficiency is > 50 MPG too. Better efficiency than commuting via a Canyonero or similar! ABRP is helpful for guestimating EV range, with lots of knobs to tweak under the more settings. Try to add in heavy rain/snow, extra cold, head wind, etc. to make ABRP more pessimistic. Since you mentioned I-35, another EV range tip/trick would be to draft behind a large semi-truck for part or most of your freeway driving. Depending on your following distance, drafting could improve efficiency by 10% or more. Follow too close you could be dangerous, annoy the truck driver and/or get windshield rock chips, but follow too far and you'll not gain as much benefit. Most large truck rigs are electronically speed-limited at or lower than the posted speed limit as well, which would help overall efficiency too. Driving Advice From One Of The Most Efficient Tesla Model S Drivers In The World - Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 If you are using the battery regularly then charging up shouldn't be too much of an issue. 90% of 310 is 279 miles and let's use my average of ~30% burn on my much shorter trips giving 195 miles of range, give or take some degradation and spirited driving. So you're close. So very close. Now, as your drive is longer (at highway speed as well) your efficiency should probably be better than mine. My average drive in the winter is closer to 12-17 miles each way but when I took my trips to Duluth this past winter I got 235-248Wh/m January driving (cities to Duluth and then back) and again in February at slightly higher usage (was driving faster) for the same trip. Let's just call it 260Wh/m. My normal winter driving shows higher utilization than that. Someone (hi Matt) brought up the idea of an S but with efficient driving the 3 should do it for *most* of your days. You also have bail points at both Robbinsdale and Oakdale (no idea which city you are heading to), and there is a planned supercharger happening in the Bloomington area. And of course there are other spots to hit at level2 speeds as needed. ObOnTopic: I think it would be doable for more than 95% of your trips and that last 5 will require some additional stopping and charging if only cause Minnesota winters can be brutal with wind, temp extremes, and both combined. I am happy to share further data if you would like to see it from TeslaFi as I have just shy of 3 years of data and includes Model S to start and over the last 9 months a Model 3 Performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay EG Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 Thanks again, i’d love to see any data you’re willing to provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Gimme an idea of what you would like to see and I'll get it extracted, or make some screenshots. I'll whet your whistle anyway.. Temperatures are in C so you'll need to math up a bit. I have had free supercharging so far for these durations but I have a price loaded specifically because I wanna know what it would have cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron M Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 6 hours ago, mike said: I have had free supercharging so far for these durations but I have a price loaded specifically because I wanna know what it would have cost. Is your cost what you would've paid at home? I noticed they seemed lower than actual supercharger cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron M Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 On 9/8/2019 at 7:50 AM, Matt Christian said: All EV batteries will degrade over time so expect your ideal rated range will be reduced 3% to 8%, after X years of ownership. That will make your "220 miles in worst-case winter conditions" have a different answer after X years from brand new. Where X is a variable and depends on many factors. Although this is true and/or a concern I would say by the time it could actually be a problem there will be a lot more chargers everywhere thus making it actually a nonissue. Also if you get any chargers at work you're basically golden anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 5:18 PM, Aaron M said: Is your cost what you would've paid at home? I noticed they seemed lower than actual supercharger cost Huh? There is so much data in the screenshots .. what are you asking about? I can deliver more screenshots to help answer but I need some clarity. Numbers fed into TeslaFi are straight forward: home at $0.095/kWh supercharger at $0.28/kWh (higher than MN rates are but with surrounding states potentially doing per-minute fees I figured why not move it up another $0.07/kWh) Maybe the costs will help you a bit. For my home electric bill I average ~$55/month year round for 1400-1700 miles per month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Andrews Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, mike said: supercharger at $0.28/kWh (higher than MN rates are but with surrounding states potentially doing per-minute fees I figured why not move it up another $0.07/kWh) For what it's worth, in my experience, when I charge in Iowa, it's always cheaper than any MN SC I've used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron M Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 8:54 AM, mike said: Numbers fed into TeslaFi are straight forward: home at $0.095/kWh supercharger at $0.28/kWh (higher than MN rates are but with surrounding states potentially doing per-minute fees I figured why not move it up another $0.07/kWh) That pretty much answered my question! I was trying to figure out why your charge cost was so low. My electricity is quite a bit higher than yours at home. My dad claims his is even worse at $0.44/kWh and he has an off peak meter. There seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency between peoples electric rates or people don't know how to read their bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlemieu1 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) speaking as a south metro guy. There is a Tesla destination you could use in a pinch that is high powered. Buck Hill has Tesla HPWC that I have got 72 amps out of. It is right before the 35 split. Edited October 11, 2019 by Jlemieu1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay EG Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 Nice, thank you all. I have a test drive scheduled this weekend. With the increase in FSD coming I guess now is the time to buy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 8:20 AM, Jay EG said: Nice, thank you all. I have a test drive scheduled this weekend. With the increase in FSD coming I guess now is the time to buy. Do not forget to use someones referral code so you can get 1000 free supercharger miles. If you want to do a drive that isn't with a sales person then reach out - far more fun with an owner vs an advisor, and you won't be limited to 'this route' or '10 minutes'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay EG Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 I’m pulling the trigger today, someone have a referral code? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Holtz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 If you have someone specific you would like you use feel free to ask them for theirs, otherwise you can look on the profile of anyone here that lists "Owner" or one of the special groups under their name and it should show their code in the Tesla Information section. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 So got your order done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay EG Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Yes sir, put it in on 10-31. AWD, very excited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 10:29 AM, Jay EG said: Yes sir, put it in on 10-31. AWD, very excited. Fantastic - and I assume you used a referral code! When is delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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