Jump to content

Battery Lifetime in Cold Climates


Dan Hedin
 Share

Recommended Posts

In general a batteries overall life should be longer in colder climates as they will have less exposure to the high temps that can really degrade the internal components. That said there are challenges that come along with it also but the car does a good job of managing those. The biggest is the plating that can occur when trying to charge and cold temps, the car takes care of this by using a very small amount of current per cell until they come up to temp as well as using a pack heater in the S/X and using the inverter/motor in the 3.

 

As far as actual data, I don't recall seeing anything in the past but I wouldn't be surprised if its out there somewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dan Holtz said:

In general a batteries overall life should be longer in colder climates as they will have less exposure to the high temps that can really degrade the internal components. That said there are challenges that come along with it also but the car does a good job of managing those. The biggest is the plating that can occur when trying to charge and cold temps, the car takes care of this by using a very small amount of current per cell until they come up to temp as well as using a pack heater in the S/X and using the inverter/motor in the 3.

 

As far as actual data, I don't recall seeing anything in the past but I wouldn't be surprised if its out there somewhere.

 

Cold being Minnesota cold, not "I might need a sweater."  I've been trying to educate people in CA that until you can see your breath, it's not even cool temperatures.  It's been my experience this past Summer out here in CA that Dan is right, the heat is #1 as it is a lot easier to keep a battery warm than it is to keep it cool.  In either case, store your car in a garage and if it is sealed and even slightly insulated, it won't drop below 31F which means you are doing all right in MN. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I live in a condo that and the coldest the garage gets is about 60 degrees so no worries there.  I was just having a conversation on BEV technology and they argued the batteries won't hold up to Minnesota's climate. I've never seen anything that worries me about the battery longevity but I don't think I've seen anything specific to cold climates.  I also don't see people complaining about battery failures much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm one of the new folk responding here and I'm gonna say in my 3 winters of driving big T machines I didn't notice my battery failing in either car.

 

So much hyperbole going on about batteries and replacing them. Sure, the Leaf doesn't have a BMS, and in Arizona they are burning out fast but that's an issue of heat and not cold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) regarding failing EV batteries.

 

A rural family neighbor was trying to convince neighbors that EV/PHEV and their batteries are bad for the environment because he claimed that the batteries were all just thrown away in landfills after they wear out/die. I don't know where this supposed "fact" originated?!?

 

This caused concern for family members, so I tried to explain how the battery pack is one of the most valuable parts of EVs so it wouldn't make economical sense to just toss the whole thing in the landfill. I explained about secondary/stationary storage use, battery recycling, re-purposing ideas, etc. Going back over a decade, I've read/heard of Toyota and third-parties recycling/re-purposing/re-using smaller assemblies like early Prius battery packs.

 

I cannot imagine Tesla would just throw them away in the trash. Heck, the salvage value of most crashed Teslas is often in the battery pack. I really cannot see any logical reason to throw away whole battery assembly packs when a bunch of the cells are still in good shape or can be use in less demanding off-road applications.

 

Tell me if I'm mistaken or green-washing the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Gigafactory is actually setup to eventually be setup and a near closed loop recycling system where the old packs will be reclaimed, and the base elements will be reused.

 

If I had to guess where the rumor of them all being throw away comes from, its the extrapolation of what so many people do with those AA and AAA batteries instead of being recycled 🙂

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dan Holtz said:

If I had to guess where the rumor of them all being throw away comes from, its the extrapolation of what so many people do with those AA and AAA batteries instead of being recycled 🙂

Probably or maybe big oil, otherwise I've totally seen an interview with Elon himself talking about the recycling program and how the end of life is just as important as the manufacturing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While there is some demand for the batteries, I personally think it is less than the price identifies. They have always floated around the $1200-$1400 range but you can sometime get a full pack for a good discount. I picked up an 85kwh pack for 7k plus about $400 in shipping.

 

There are a few people that have setup "powerwalls" using the bricks, it's non trivial as they run at a bit different voltages then most systems are expecting but I would say the most notable creation is wk057's https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/plan-off-grid-solar-with-a-model-s-battery-pack-at-the-heart.34531/ 

I created my own a few years ago and used it for load shifting but my current line of thinking is pointing me towards using model 3 packs with my next build.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/5/2019 at 12:18 PM, Dan Hedin said:

I looked on Ebay to see what battery packs were going for.  It looks like the prices are very high around $1k-$2k per module so there must be a lot of demand.  

Or just very low supply.

That's my guess at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/2/2019 at 9:34 AM, Vexar said:

Tesla won't throw the battery packs away.  They will take them off your hands and give you nothing for them, however. 

If Tesla won't pay us or give us a discount/credit toward replacement packs, a third-party market will almost certainly develop that will pay owners for the packs. There's just too much value in them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, mike said:

One of our members had a battery replaced on their 3 because of a boulder.

 

Tesla *refused* to let him have the pack even though insurance paid for the new pack.

I thought replacing batteries equaled a totalled car.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...